This conversation has been edited for length and clarity. For one, you called me a man. It also features the stories of over 75 everyday people whove applied biblical principles to heal from grief. I too felt things were off with Warrens works and when I started to study the Word in relation to Warrens teachings I found his work to be eisegesical. I really didnt handle it well, and its part of that journey that resulted ultimately in me doing Replenish. You dont know hopeless until youve been that hopeless. The whole world talks this way to each other & about each other. Its actually a really good question. Any addictions program will have a great deal of self-reflection and self-awareness. Holy Communion!!!! I invite you to read the whole of Romans 14, I hope it will help you. It really became an issue in the 1980s. Saddleback Church ordains three women, defying Souther Baptist I have spent some time looking up CR, meditation, and even that quote specifically since I read your question. Shortly After Ordaining Women Pastors, Rick Warren Announces His Retirement Rick changed the culture of the community where he lives, and theres nothing that makes a backward Baptist angrier than the church growth success of someone like Rick Warren. How does a person get saved? That is a perfectly fair question. Would a couple of paragraphs have been fair? Its about a slower time of worship and being with God. Second, help people clearly understand what youre asking them to do. I love your positivity and focus on that. (Frankly, the more chances I give Rick Warren, the more negative things I find about him as a pastor.) And I am so happy that you found a church that digs into the meat of the Word. 1. Largest church in SBC ordains three women as pastors Here is the Associated Press:. At Saddleback, we did Just In Time training, giving people just enough to get started. The gospel is that were all sinners and are going to Hell, Jesus came to Earth as man and God to live a sinless life and He took the punishment for our sins on the cross. But thank you for considering what I wrote and writing a thoughtful comment. Apparently, Warren plucked it out of Job without thought of the true meaning of the text. Your argument that you got something from what he has written is not a valid one when the discussion is whether or not his teachings are rooted in Scripture. This is why Warren's church would have fallen apart; because the church is devoid of Christ. The story of Jesus is given (yay! A little Joseph Smith, maybe. One exercise I do with pastors is called the Replenishment Cycle. I was concerned with the beliefs section of the site, but Saddleback presents itself as quite doctrinally sound. I think the biggest question pastors need to ask is, Why am I so driven? Instead, I suggest that you find blogs to read that speak to you and your needs. Someone in recovery but not saved is ultimately no better off. Saddleback Pastor Rick Warren searching for his successor | Church If you believe that women can and/or should be pastors, I ask you to flip your method of interpreting the Word. I sincerely hope you see this as a fair question. The standards given in the book are based on Warrens experience. Hi Julie, I agree with much of what you say, though I think you are over thinking it God uses many questionable things but people get saved. I was definitely on a path to burnout. The accusation there is that I take great pains to avoid minor infractions/offenses, but I accept big sins. For example, God didnt condemn anyone to Hell. Paul wanted to stick to the Faith when others beliefs crept in. But churches like Saddleback lure people in with friendliness and self-help styled sermons. I am passionate about encouraging Christian women to grow in their faith, live godly lives, and discern truth from all the lies and noise of the world. And he does this by making the gospel and his church easier for the world to tolerate, but its so watered down it is barely recognizable. Im just not comfortable with it. Saddleback Church pastor Rick Warren signals retirement with search for At the same time, the Bible isnt really open to multiple interpretations in most places. Im really enjoying reading through this forum. CareLeader.org helps you provide biblical and compassionate pastoral care. Pastors need to ask themselves, What are the barriers that keep people from jumping in to serve? At Saddleback we discovered the word leader itself was a barrier to some people who didnt consider themselves leaders. No, I havent contacted Pastor Warren or the SBC. You are not phased by negativity and your focus is on scripture which I love. No church is perfect. But lets quickly look at the most commonly used scripture to explain this position. I feel bad for you that you judge that way. Titus 1:9 says, He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. Similarly, Titus 2:1 says, But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine. Those verses are instructions for when a brother or sister in Christ has sinned against us personally. and Catholicism, Priests, and Celibacy. June 8, 2021 5 AM PT Rick Warren, the founder of a sprawling megachurch, a bestselling author and one of the most influential figures in American evangelicalism, is retiring as lead pastor of. Our seminary enrollment is down. You made a good point. This article demonizes Rick in a sarcastic and disturbing manner, I mean using words such as bad, bad hermeneutics. We really need to be careful in this area. That just breaks my heart. I suppose I stepped on some toes here, but sometimes we need our toes stepped on, right? God bless you. Certainly, it is missing in how Saddleback presents itself publicly. Before launching Replenish, Lance served twenty years as a senior pastor and six years as an executive/teaching pastor at Saddleback Church. We should all avoid proof texting. I think you are utterly and completely wrong about both Rick Warren and Saddleback Church. Im not hammering anyone. Deborah was the judgea political leaderover Israel in Judges 4. A healthy, sound church is such a gift. I think you have a pet issue that you see in everything Im not saying women cant teach, share the gospel, or otherwise be used in great ways by God for His kingdom purposes. (* I have read through the leader information when previously considering starting CR in a previous church.). God bless! He is now dedicated to helping leaders live and lead from a healthy soul. Lets pretend you read this watered down gospel, and you want to be saved. Its weird that you say youve been helped at Celebrate Recovery no thanks to [me]. Why would I have a hand in your recovery? Celebrate Recovery uses this verse to support the principle that to recover, I need to examine and confess my faults to myself, to God, and to someone I trust. This is a completely unrelated interpretation of that verse. It might not be the way you think is right, but only God sees ones true heart and intentions. 4. Be hypervigilant. But now a pastors people listen online to the best communicators anywhere in the country, so theres pressure for a pastor to deliver. It would be wonderful if leaders in the SBC and/or members of his church would pull him aside, but they either havent or it hasnt worked. As for Pastor Warren, there are a couple reasons I havent spoken to him. They need to have a compelling, inspiring reason why. People are not perfect nor are churches. Second, you think Im jealous of Rick Warren. 15 reviews of Saddleback Church "Such a great campus and wonderful community to build relationships with one another. I love the Church, and I engage with people who write me (even when its mean-spirited) because I love them and want to treat them with respect and point them to truth. Get a Bible There it is! Rick Warren is wonderful, and here are some personal experiences. (I dont promote my own church because I encourage local church membership.) Youre watching this short video clip for the the prayer of salvation he says at the end. Even if Saddleback in the end is OK with disfellowship and wants to move on, I hope they will appeal it if for no other reason than to allow their brothers and sisters in Christ, who do not want to see this happen to other churches, to debate this on the floor of the annual convention in an orderly process governed by Roberts Rules of Order. Saddleback also was the birthplace of Celebrate Recovery, a Christian 12-step inspired program to help people deal with their "hurts, hang-ups and habits." The program has been adopted by tens of. Celebrate Recovery shares how to be born again, but the programs focus is the program. There are endless arguments against this teaching, but they are all just grasping at straws to fight against a plain biblical teaching that does not suit modern-day sensibilities. Are we going to start kicking out churches who have pastors that are unfaithful to their wives? So, when a Christian recovery program misuses and abuses Scripture, I see a secular program with a veneer of Christianity. On the other hand, continued CR attendance is imperative. Ministry today might be as complex as its ever been in the history of the world. Instead, Im comparing Bible teaching to Warrens teaching. Obviously there have been generations where persecution has been hotter and more intense, but there are more complexities for a pastor today. The Beatitudes are generally accepted as descriptions of the character of Gods kingdom. Not everyone likes that form of humor. If Christians love their Ted Talk pastor more than Gods Word and His instructions, then I dont know what to say. I went to Saddleback in 2000, and Rick Warren wrote The Purpose Driven Life in 2002. CRs foundational principles are based on the a sermon on the Mount. His critics would have been delighted if he had failed. Although we do not see eye to eye on this topic, I do pray you have many blessings in the years to come. Men and women, according to Scripture, are equal in the sight of the Lord. She cannot enter His presence by her own works and will spend eternity in Hell (then, the lake of fire) when she dies. Last week the Southern Baptist Convention ousted Saddleback Church, one of its largest and highest-profile member churches, from its ranks. How did Saddleback get kicked out of the SBC? It's complicated. The notion that women should be silent in church, found in 1 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Corinthians 14:3, refers specifically to instances of the church and marriage. Can you articulate that? And discover how GriefShare can equip your church to launch and sustain a proven care and outreach ministry. However, in its proper context we discover this is bad advice given by one of Jobs friends. Destructive hard does lead to burnout. According to Warrens book, we will find purpose when we know the Lord, and purpose is what we need most. Interview With Pastor Cynthia Petty - Live Good - Organic, Sustainable The work in the nursery, on the missions committee, etc., is just as important as a pastors calling. Rick Warren to retire as Saddleback Church's lead pastor God bless. Never mind He died on a cross because of our terrible, damning sin and He created the world out of nothing. I have great news for you! Now, some Southern Baptists fear an ultraconservative ideological wing of the organization is imposing its own beliefs and values on other churches. I myself did actually enjoy The Purpose Driven life as a new Christian and have enjoyed many of Rick Warrens sermons (on line) but having read through your points, Im re-thinking a lot and will be re-searching his teachings a bit more in depth. By the same logic, you should probably refrain from commenting on someones blog post It doesnt make sense, you know? Saddleback Pastor Rick Warren announces search for his successor: 'Timing is everything'. Rick Warren and the church has changed many lives, including mine. A mistake is generally accepted as an unintentional thing. Some of that was because of the pace and the demands, but some of it was also because I didnt lead myself very well. Who are you, and what relationship do we have that this is the expectation? I thank you for staying strong and focused on biblical teachings and Im actually learning a lot here. If you want to investigate this issue, Id start HERE. The popular preacher. I went to Saddleback in 2000, and Rick Warren wrote The Purpose Driven Life in 2002. On hearing of Saddleback's decision to allow women to become pastors, some Southern Baptist ministers had conflicting opinions. Meanwhile, I suggest watching the series on women that Mike Winger is doing on YouTube. I thought I would be all alone in my opinion of Warrens book, and I was partially correct. I was always preoccupied. It says they have to be temperate. Those that fail just really arent ready to quit, and those that actually realize from rock bottom a god in Heaven will help, always can quit. It is the pastors job to equip. Rather, I am asking people to reconsider Rick Warren and Saddleback. Saddleback Church lead pastor Rick Warren and his congregation said goodbye to their worship music leader for the last 24 years during church services this past weekend at the megachurch's main campus in Lake Forest, Calif. Kay Warren, Rick Warrens wife, added insult to injury on Mothers Day and gave the Sunday message. Challies gives an example of Warren using Job 22:21, Acquaint now thyself with him, and be at peace: thereby good shall come unto thee. Warren uses this verse in a positive way in his book. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. Ordaining female pastors contradicts biblical teachings. 4 Reasons You Need a Break by Lane Sebring I find it incredibly sad when Christians seek to tear each other down. And it fails the people who go through the program whether they leave in recovery or not. The Southern Baptist Convention on Tuesday ousted its second-largest congregation Saddleback Church, the renowned California megachurch founded by pastor and best-selling author Rick Warren for having a woman pastor. How to restore broken marriages after an affair, part 1, 3 ways pastors can help women and families experiencing postpartum depression, Pastoral care and refuge for rape victims, How your pastoral limitations can bless your churches. Kudos to you! Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. I do think in many cases, and this is just my opinion, that God is working in spite of the megachurch to accomplish His will. If youre not convinced of the importance of marking and avoiding false teachers, then I suggest you read my post on why we should call them out. You are allowed your opinion, as am I. I am not seeking to tear down another Christian. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information, Saddleback Church ordained women. You have to learn how to say no, how to have boundaries, how to take care of yourself. During normal operations, Saddleback's Lake Forest site is said to have a weekly attendance of often more than 30,000 congregants. Im going to share some of his points here. All we must do is repent and believe. Im actually sad that he is so liberal and strays from the gospel. Pastors have to look people in the eye and challenge them to step up and serve. Lots of people know the Truth, but there is only one place to find it. I assume you see me, and others like me, as judgmental and mean. You prop up a gospel that nobody can live up to so you feel superior. If anything, you didnt go far enough, but you were 100% correct. Simply put, Im a Bible-believing Christian woman. Because like a lot of pastors, I grew up with an always be available mentality, without many boundaries or limits. The website, I thought, might be clearer. The Methodists probably will split, and each new denomination probably will fire shots across the other's bow during the 2020s. Have you run across that? Pissing on everybody else doesnt make your walk look any better, love. Follow any of the links below to read biblical responses to you queries. . And as a side note: A large audience (which is what Saddleback has) is not necessarily indicative of a successful church. Yes, theology is important and doctrine matters. So I hope Saddleback appeals it. Give people a simple step. I think you should know the Bible more than just basing it in one scripture. Whats a good first step for you to take?. Be discerning. You dont have to feel bad for me, though. Copyright 2020 The Set-Apart Walk. This demonstrates a complete ignorance of who God is. Warren uses a lot of Bible verses in The Purpose Driven Life, but he consistently engages in eisegesis. A soul freed from addiction but not from the bondage of sin is still damned. They water down the gospel, downplay sin, and cater to worldly preferences instead of focusing on biblical principles. Pastors can ask questions like, Whats the state of my soul? Am I drained? Am I actually leading others while running on empty myself? Am I more irritable? Often those are signs of unhealthy motivation. Why would they like it? I havent contacted the SBC because I am no longer a Southern Baptist, so I would not be taken seriously as an outsider. I ran across your site while continuing my own research of CR. (All the information I share in this section is from the Saddleback Church website, unless otherwise noted.). If hes the one whos always doing the work of the ministry, he will become the bottleneck of the church. (Again, theres more on the My Testimony page.). We may not only be losing Saddleback Church and Rick Warren. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. So, once again, we see a poorly given gospel message with more focus on Saddlebacks product than anything else. I have read all of his devotionals (365 of them as I translated them into another language) and they were sincere and enriching for me personally. Last year, some claimed Warren's Saddleback Church no longer belongs in the convention and proposed ousting the biggest church in the SBC for ordaining female pastors. (https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/) If you dont want to read my take on it because Im obviously not your cup of tea, then Google it. CR offers an opportunity to say the prayer of salvation (which is not a real thing, by the way), and shares testimonies about salvation that are more about recovery than Jesus. Hi, Elizabeth. On Sunday, Warren harked back to the original. I will do everything I can to help that appeal process. Rather, filter your worldview and beliefs through the truth of His Word. Im Julie. Pastors also have not always been good about leading themselves. Now what on earth can someone have against Celebrate Recovery (CR)? Looking at your list, though, Id say most of what you listed is unbiblical. People dont have time to spend four Tuesday nights training for a volunteer position. INTERVIEW WITH PASTOR CYNTHIA PETTY. I certainly hope it isnt true. But I learned that as insidious as the external things are, the internal things are more insidious. If you read some of my other posts you would know that I have a mom who died as a result of her alcoholism. The Southern Baptist Convention decided Tuesday to oust Saddleback Church, the second-largest congregation of the convention, because it has a female pastor. The SBC added a ban on female pastors to its statement of core beliefs, the Faith and Message doctrine, in 2000, but the decision to remove Saddleback, a rare success story in a time of declining church membership, has not been met with uniform enthusiasm among the SBCs roughly 47,000 member churches. Dwight McKissic, senior pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas, shared his displeasure on Twitter, writing that the decision to disfellowship Saddleback was not about Scripture or adherence to the Baptist Faith and Message. 3. No gospel to be found, but he does invite the reader to accept Christ. I wouldnt expect everyone to like it, of course, but why should I accommodate my writing for your sensibilities? Very insightful thank you for your faithful service. Romans 14 is about not having disunity over disputable matters. Saddleback, like many mega-churches, uses its online platform (the website) as a marketing strategy with testimonials, self-help sayings ("You weren't just meant to believe; You were made to belong."), and an almost idolatrous love of the pastor/founder. Throughout the Bible, women have played a key role in fulfilling Gods plan. You sound more like a Rick Warren super fan than a Christian concerned about sound biblical teaching. Im not the first or last Christian to address this topic. Whether or not individuals who are both employed by SBC agencies or serve as trustees of those entities and agencies seized upon the opportunity of Rick Warrens retirement to seek and pursue the removal of Saddleback from fellowship, I dont know. Christians cant even peacefully agree on a Bible translation, but millions will read and love this book? Folks who are not on the right and increasingly the far right of the theological political spectrum do not find a home in SBC. Hi, Im Julie. I one of those theologically challenged slobs who actually was saved at a CR. Thanks. The Purpose Driven Life misuses Bible texts, so Warren can make the points he wants to. Pastors come up with excuses for people, like, Oh well, Im sure theyre busy. That may be true, but they can still challenge busy people by saying, You need to be doing something for the kingdom. In that case, a little help in this area would be needed and responsible of him and his ministry. Rather than Jesus lessons about the kingdom during the Sermon on the Mount, CR is offering Your Best Life Now kinda stuff. I think thats called hypocrisyIf you have questions regarding calling out false teachers, then I suggest you read this post: https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/. If you could just manage your environment better, you wouldnt burn out. It also says that an overseer a pastor is to be faithful to his wife. You then went on to tell me what kind of posts I should be posting instead and how to correct my post to make it more palpable to you. I always used the excuse that this was just for a season. - The Set-Apart Walk, https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/, 4 LifeWay Red Flags That Should Send You Running - The Set-Apart Walk, Why I Wont Apologize For Calling Out False Teachers - The Set-Apart Walk, https://www.christianpost.com/news/rick-warren-to-muslims-talk-is-cheap-let-s-work-together.html, Why Churches Are Becoming LGBTQ+ Allies - The Set-Apart Walk, Rick Warren And The Problem With Celebrity Pastors - The Set-Apart Walk, https://thesetapartwalk.com/progressive-christianity-not-all-progress-is-good/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/christian-unity-is-not-what-you-think-it-is/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/catholicism-is-not-biblical-christianity/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-churches-are-becoming-lgbtq-allies/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/how-to-identify-a-bad-ladies-bible-teacher/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/rick-warren-and-the-problem-with-celebrity-pastors/, Christian Unity Is Not What You Think It Is - The Set-Apart Walk, Responding To Your Feedback: Part 1 - The Set-Apart Walk. In other books, he refers to woman that held churches in their houses, such as Nympha in Colossians 4:15 and Chloe in 1 Corinthians 1:11. This, obviously, makes it secular for all intents and purposes. Jesus is just love. And we need to test everything: hold fast what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). Created by the team that produces CareLeader.org, GriefShare features many of the experts who contribute to the CareLeader website. Those churches were disfellowshipped [removed] from their local associations, and it never came to a vote in the national convention in the way that this is happening. Thats a given. Paul celebrated that even those that preached out of selfishness didnt matter; the gospel was moving forward! The only area you are completely off the mark (and quite innocently) is in the recovery program. The comments just prove the Church is apostate. Leave the lost wicked dying and addicted to those who give a damn. But I love the Church, and I am grieved by the dangerous and lukewarm teachings of men and women like Rick Warren. She started at The Times in 2006 and has worked across a wide range of sections including entertainment, home and garden, national news, technology and science. God doesnt need our forgiveness, and to suggest otherwise is foolishness. An anxious wife. It continues today as a ministry out of Warrens church, Saddleback Church. Lance Witt is the founder of Replenish ministries and is often referred to as a pastors pastor. Go back to your white washed sepulcher where you and your associates are most comfortable. This kind of discernment is not self-righteousness. Thank you for commenting! June 28, 2021 3 AM PT Rick Warren's announcement on June 6 that he plans to step away from his role as lead pastor at Saddleback Church in Lake Forest raises the issue of succession in. Ive seen people completely renewed after salvation. I certainly hope that you take your own advice, as well. But, yall, it is so cringey. If youre curious about who I am, you should read my testimony. Check out this article about when he spoke to Muslims and encouraged them not to compromise their beliefs for the greater good of working together with Christians. I was responsible, and it was my job, with the Holy Spirits help, to lead myself well. I was 26 years old, and I am the first born-again person in my family. Frequently Asked Questions Tell us about your role at Saddleback Church. We fail, and the gospel is the good news that Jesus has offered us as the way to be reconciled to God. I ran across an article quoting Rick or John concerning the meditation part of CR stating that he recommended clearing the mind and repeating the words I am to get the mmm going. Its not minor to openly and unrepentantly disobey Gods Word by ordaining female pastors. He is now dedicated to helping leaders live and lead from a healthy soul. I was not a victim of my circumstances. The American Church is an embarrassment as it strays away from the Lord. What Saddleback Church ouster means for Southern Baptists - Los Angeles

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