Since we are only given the height of Goliath (and as this article points out, there are two different recordings of his height), it is not possible to know if he was the tallest or if someone else was taller. The things you site in your comments (Wall of China, South America, etc) are not evidence for people of that height. However, it is never my intention to enter into a prolonged debate. When reading the verse you are attacking and yes you are calling Gods word into question, it seems pretty clear. Ps. WebMales averaged about 1m 75 cm; females 1m 60 cm, Neanderthals were considerably stronger and tougher. Whichever way our prejudices run, they do not help us get at the truth of Goliaths height. The region, known as the Bashan, is where Og the king came out against the Israelites at the time of their entrance into the Promised Land. I wish you the best. 1Sam. Each one is said to be related to the giant (the word is rapha which is the singular of Rephaim). Any non-standard unit of measurement is sure to have fluxes and variations. The other link in my post refers to an article by Clyde Billington. However, while 1 Samuel 17 does not call Goliath a giant, there are two other passages that infer he was a descendant of the Nephilim. I would encourage you to read some of my responses in the comment section and also encourage you to read other articles of mine. 1. The skull, which is 23cm long and more than 15cm wide, is substantially larger than a modern humans and has ample room, at 1,420ml, for a modern human The Nephilim are referenced in Genesis and Numbers and are possibly referred to in Ezekiel. Bible, Archaeology, Travel with Luke Chandler I appreciate his work. Look at all the ones in recorded history, they all needed canes to walk meaning so too did Goliath. Others, however, believe it is related to the Hebrew word "naphal," meaning "to Please prove your assessment that the average height of the ancient Hebrews were only 5 or so. Thanks for the encouragement! Look at Robert Wadlow (the one mentioned who was 8 feet, 11.1 inches tall at last measurement). Second, it is important to examine the textual evidence for each reading. That is why the most reliable witness of it would seem to be 1 Chron. I totally agree. Since Gath can also be considered a border town. I therefore believe its possible that later scribes revised based on the 18 inch cubit length that was prevalent at the time of the Masoretes when they updated the numbers to an 18 inch system (widely in use at the time). You find out in Chapter 14 of Numbers as well as Chapter 13 of Numbers that the report given was a bad/evil report. WebAsk everyone to send you their heights and compare them together on our crisp and clean chart! The average height of people in the ANE, based on what Ive read, is based on the bones that have been uncovered. At its center is a mound of loose stones over 65 feet in diameter and over 16 feet tall, covering a central chamber carved into solid rock. Peter. They are descendants from Ham. It would be like 80 trees or more to feel like that. 1Sam. Semyaza, Shemyaza, Semjaza, Semiaza, Samyaza, Shemhazai. Therefore, they excite the human mind and imagination. However, Billington agrees with Hays that the average Israelite was somewhere in the range of 5 feet to 53. 3. Goliath had 3 relatives later killed not sure their height was recorded. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. The concept of Nephilim still leaving among us today comes mostly from the spiritual community. Furthermore, 2 Samuel 21:15-22 relates four stories of Philistines who are killed by Davids men. So how large is large? Comparative height chart Notes: The height of Goliath varies between the various witnesses (manuscripts) to 1 Samuel 17.4 between 4 1/2 6 cubits and a span using an 18 inch system still puts Goliath between that 9 and 10 foot range. As a result, I find myself partial to the MT. Newton goes into extensive detail regarding not only why the sacred Egyptian cubit was around 25 inches, but also that this cubit significantly impacted the Hebrew use of this cubit. Ancient Hebrews (or Israelites) were part of a Semitic group of people with which they shared many common characteristics. That certainly could be a possibility. When there is a discrepancy such as this, this is what people who love the Scripture should do. WebRT @xreamm: Nephilim height chart https://t.co/Cr43cm8kWG. Like a cubit, the length of a span depends on the size of the person. What is interesting about the inscription is that the letters used are Hebrew/Canaanite letters. Thanks! In other words, which reading, 4 cubits and a span, or 6 cubits and a span, seems to have the most solid evidence for being the original reading? The Chronicles account only helps to clear up the confusion. David didnt really kill Goliath, Elhanan did. This comment from you is egregious. The description of his tall stature certainly suggests a connection with the descendants of the Nephilim. Thanks! Being unnatural creatures, their souls had no place to rest in peace. It is no doubt a very reliable tradition of the text so thats one reason. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. This is well documented in a work of his that friends published in 1737 after his death. God bless! Thanks, Randy. Thanks for the article it was good reading. The closest corresponding entities in Greek mythology would be the people from the Golden Age or maybe the Bronze Age*, but neither is really a good fit at all. The Nephilim as they are known in the Bible simply dont exist in Greek mythology. *See Ages of Man - Wikipedia for an overview of the Five Ages of Man in Greek mythology So. . Today someone who is 6 feet or taller is a common occurrence, but remember, most people in the ancient world were nearly 9 inches to 1 foot smaller. We know not much information about him. But Ill admit, 99 makes the story much more interesting. God bless! Hes big on both fronts, and more likely the way Goliath was. The bones would have later been interred in a huge serpentine structure of loose stones adjacent to stone rings. NIV. If he was taller than Wadlow, then he too would have also outgrew his nervous system just as Wadlow did, meaning like Wadlow he wouldnt have been able to walk without a cane. To The Most High be the Glory, If Goliath had been 30 feet tall the out come would have been the same. In the end, what matters is that faith in, and zealousness for, YeHoVaH will lead us to victory and keep us humble: the battle always belongs to Him. Numbers 13:33 There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.. Did you know that there are two different biblical traditions for Goliaths height? Please disregard any other race of people in your response such as Egyptians, Asians, Mongolians, Ashkenazians, or Khazarians. The Bible DOES NOT say he is from Gob only that is where the battle took place and where Elhanan slew him. We are discussing an argument which is irrelevant because the point here is to who belongs the credit, honor and glory is to GOD. Humans and dinosaurs never lived at the same time. Some scholars believe that Goliath the Gittite (an inhabitant of Gath) belonged to a race of people known as the Nephilim ( Genesis 6:1-4 ). One common explanation of Genesis 6 is that the Nephilim are the descendants of the sons of God (fallen angels) and the daughters of men. These various measurements of the cubit are only the beginning of the uncertainty regarding Goliaths height, because we also must consider how long a span is. - You can at least wait for the dev to program the other stats into the game. But the nephilim from The Bible should not be alive today, because they were all killed by Archangel Gabriel before the flood. It would seem cubit would get longer (due to increasing physiological conditions and such), but even if bodies were a little larger in the early CE, a cubit size could have been calculated smaller than in earlier times (for whatever reason). Those look to be defenses akin to Giants. How does this theory answer OG of Bashan and his 9 cubit x 4 cubit beadstead? Saul is said to be head and shoulders above everyone else. I still stand by my other observations (1,2,3). And one of our ancestors bones found was 13ft tall in a burial cave in 1980. In the "Book of Enoch," the Nephilim begat by the Watchers and human women aren't the heroic "men of renown" of Genesis, but "great giants whose height was three thousand ells," which is more than 3,000 meters (~9,840 feet) tall. No the ancient Hebrews are not the same as any of the nationalities I listed. Numbers 13:33. None of it adds up to a story worth telling if he was only 69. We seek out actual proof, the traces and clues that are out there in the world, and not just the faith-based claims. Also, , 6 Reasons why you should not worship Astaroth If you are familiar with the occult, , What Are Demons? Well, Not Fallen Angels! Im not saying the giants were 30 ft. tall but Im also not saying only a foot or so taller. God bless. Which makes them look like some kind of fairies. Claiming Gob is a poor translation is false and poor study on your part. When I read this story in the bible and took time to figure out the size , it came up to 9 and 6 tall. Do you believe they still exist? My problem with the baseline assessment is it is entirely based on the average height of a man from the ancient world being 55. I looked into this matter further. You are, of course, welcome to respond. Hi Andy, Check out LA Marzuli and youll see 61-9 is not Goliaths height. Thank you Jamie. . What does the grass hopper claim illustrate. 9+ feet would indeed be a giant. The purpose of Gilgal Refaim is still a mystery and the focus of scholarly debate. Im not accusing anyone of anything here and I dont begrudge you a differing opinion. For example, as Im sure youre aware, a potsherd has been discovered in Gath with letters that resemble the name Goliath (also noted in an article on this blog about Philistine cities). God bless! If some come to light that would be fascinating. A fascinating read. Even though the section begins by stating the Israelites were at war with the Philistines, the individuals named in the following verses who are killed by Israelites are called Rapha. Its also important that what we may consider a giant and what an ancient person may have considered a giant could be different. His most popular height estimate is 164cm which people often use in non game based height charts and his datamined height was around that mark as well 162cm. WebMale MC is estimated to be around 5'4. Thanks for your comment. They have some physical differences, but those are not that easy to spot. Please continue writing. The NIV uses the word Nephilim. I also respect your patience with those in the blog who questioned your faith and didnt seem to read everything you had written based on the different evidence (MT, DSS, & LXX). It was a false report to get the Israelites to turn against Moses. Interesting reading, but just nope. The Hebrew text (MT) of 1 Samuel 17:4 lists Goliaths height at six cubits and a span, while a copy of the book of Samuel from the Dead Sea Scrolls (4QSam[a])along with copies of the Septuagint (LXX), list Goliaths height at 4 cubits and a span. For all you mathematicians that may be reading this, that is a two cubit difference. Maybe the four cubits could be the measurements taken from Goliaths dead body. Such a clean cut scenario does not coincide with reality. If we all see its Goliath was bigger than a re guar men in that time and even bigger than Saul otherwise it would not emphasize his height, but the whole point is that the spirit of GOD was with David, so the stone was purposely driven by GOD not the man David. This theory is an attempt to do away with what the Bible says. It is an evergreen conifer that can reach 40 m (130 ft) in height. Wiki. The Samuel text is well-known for having suffered in transmission. 5 total brothers as David knew when he killed Goliath that Goliaths brothers would come after him. Saul was head and shoulder above anyone else so it would be only logical that the giant was taller than Saul would you agree? In fact, the last True giant is killed in Deuteronomy. Today we would think anyone taking every statement we make literally as either not being very discerning or having a poor grasp of the rules of grammar. They are present in movies, series, books and comic books. This reference is to Goliath and here he is associated with the Rephaim, who were also considered to be descendants of the Nephilim. No Randy, the Chroniclers text is a deliberate harmonization of the text to resolve the conflict. The reference to Rapha in 2 Samuel 21 doesnt really mean giant, although the Rephaim were considered to be a very tall people. WebThe Physical Features of Neanderthal Neanderthals were physically very strong and unquestionably tough, a physically impressive race. why else do we find ancient tribes of natives in Az. So, my point: Using 25 inches as the baseand calculating 4 cubits and a span, we have around 109 inches (just around 9 feet). Hays points out the well-known fact that the MT of 1&2 Samuel has a number of scribal errors. Biblical characters did often have more than one name as do monarchs. Likewise King Saul (Hebrew asked for because the people asked for a king) is the historical Labaya. However, the phrase the giant is used several times in 2 Samuel 21 in referring to Goliath and his sons. Thanks again for writing. How many people does it take, how far ranging geographically, and time-wise, however, are all good questions. There was clearly a very intelligent design behind the site, Landa noted. Randy, Well as he was a descendant of a Giant race of people surely 6 foot 9 inches would make him a midget ? This is just one of the many problems with the story of David and Goliath. The most You are going on supposition here, not hard proven evidence. Humans are NOT like whales who live in the ocean Archaeologists generally place the beginning of the construction as early as 3500 BCE. God delivered His people through extremes not from relatively bad situations. And their souls became the Demons that we all know today, the evil spirits tormenting humankind. Giant means giant. Now imagine if he is the top fighter with the best weapons and armour? Did we compare the bones of 10,000 men from the ancient world stretching from Asia, to the Middle East and then average their height? I dont know about the discovery of people in the 7ft+ range in the US, but no such discoveries have been made in the Middle East to this point. Interesting thoughts about the Egyptian Craig. And what about the enormous grape bunches they carried out. Greetings, brother! 3:1-11). Your explanation is one possibility and is put forth by a number of OT scholars. Knowing that the sons of God had sexual relations with the human race, that of course I mean the women. Studies have shown conclusively that the average American, when challenged to do so, was unable to successfully locate their own backside with the use of both hands, a map, a guide dog, a Royal Canadian Mounted Police officer to assist, and a GPS locator. If we compare Goliaths height to known examples of people with giantism then we narrow down the comparison and may get a more accurate glimpse of Goliaths height. God bless! Heres why 9 feet would be out of the realm of realism. They are also evil, blood thirsty monsters. Anakim were the descendants of Anak. Hays also argues that it is much easier to explain how 4 cubits was changed to 6 cubits rather than the other way around. First, we should not judge Goliaths height based on modern standards, but rather on ancient Near Eastern standards. and 2 Sam. Rapha is the singular of Rephaim, who are a people that dwelt in Canaan and east of the Jordan long before Israel ever came into Canaan (e.g., Deut. It is disengenuous to call them all middle Eastern. I am always humbled and grateful for those who help us navigate the stark differences in our world and the world of the Old Covenant. In the apocryphal book of Enoch, I think some are given names, but I'm pretty sure Leviathan, Behemoth, and Goliath are not them. Israelites, Edomites, Moabites, Ammonites, all shared a common ancestry, as the Bible makes clear. Therefore, there is a high chance that youve already met a nephilim in person. The main commentary of the Nephilim happens in Genesis chapter six. You raise some good questions. I would recommend reading his book.). Saul disobeyed what God told him to do so he feared his life before this giant Champion of war but David was anointed with oil by the Prophet Samuel and Devil being only a youth of approximately 17 years of age was tested by God to prove his faith in God with a Shepherds sling as most left handed Benjamites therefore convinciby David how God would stand with him giving David a righteous indignation against Goliaths defying God in the face of Israel. These cookies do not store any personal information. Nephilim, the original giants that could reach the size or almost the size of skyscrapers (which isnt unbelievable when you look at how high planes can go before air becomes a bother). I have no problem with those who want to assert that Goliath was 9 ft. tall. I am surprised by some of the comments on this post which leads me to believe that we have a poor understanding of literary devices, grasshoppers being one of them. I find this very interesting because the bible is dealing with truth and not politics. Other markings indicate star risings. Royal cubits varied from country to country. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Hays says that a scribe copying the manuscript accidentally looked down at verse 7 and saw the number 6 (as in six hundred) and copied it into verse 4. What Are Demons? Well, Not Fallen Angels! The Jerusalem Post Customer Service Center can be contacted with any questions or requests: Gilgal Refaim is an ancient megalithic monument in the Golan Heights (Credit: Hebrew Wikipedia user ., CC BY-SA 3.0), Sign up for The Jerusalem Post Premium Plus for just $5, Upgrade your reading experience with an ad-free environment and exclusive content, Copyright 2023 Jpost Inc. All rights reserved, Sign up for our Christian World newsletter >>. So your argument is duly noted. Steve, What do you make of the dozens of skeletons at 7ft+ range found in the 1800s in the US alone? WebThe most notable feature of the Nephilim is their colossal size, with some measuring between 15 to 20 feet (4,5 to 6 meters) in height, although there is evidence of Nephilim up to 328 or 656 feet (100 or 200 meters) in height, There is much mystery surrounding the Nephilim. The writers of the New Testament quoted from it frequently. Hi David, Also, some of them look like unearthly beautiful human beings!!!! People with Giantism average 8.5 feet tall or greater. The story never refers to Goliath as a giant. Unless some new manuscript discovery is found by the archaeologists spade, we will never be able to reconstruct what this text actually said. May God bless you all with so much unwavering faith..!!! (they can regenerate their nervous systems), we have gravity pulling us down everyday on land where we have to maneuver. Which is interesting because its the length of the Ark. However that Anakim were descendants of Nephilim and that Nephilim were usually tall (and that Nephilim existed post-flood in the first place, for that matter) all comes from one single verse: an evil report (Num 13, see vss. Thank you for not hammering those less equipped in the English language (me included) Im also a little familiar with David Rohls work. Just like modern day basketball players. I think the term Giant means Giant. For example, consider the following two passages: Enoch 6:1-2: 1. How an a soldier fight if they cant hardly walk? Furthermore, although 1 Chronicles does not include the story of David and Goliath, he notes that where 1 Chronicles is parallel with 1&2 Samuel, Chronicles always agrees with the reading of 4QSam(a) and the LXX when it differs from the MT. The entranceway to the center looks out on the sunrise on the summer solstice. Apparently, Sir Isaac Newton argued that the sacred cubit length of the Egyptians was beteeen 24.90 and 25.02 inches. Billington disagrees with Hays on the height of Goliath, believing instead that Goliath is in the 8 foot range. You have been a gentleman with your responses and it is clear you have an unbiased view which is great! https://partners.faithlife.com/click.track?CID=431490&AFID=464012, Bible, Archaeology, Travel with Luke Chandler, The earliest Hebrew manuscript, 4QSam(a), which dates to the middle of the first century BC, reads 4 cubits and a span. Hays points out that this particular manuscript, The major early Septuagint texts all have this reading. Hays also notes that Josephus refers to Goliaths height as 4 cubits and a span.. However, that is not the only explanation. Most people cruise right over that passage. Other passages do seem to support that the Nephilim (and those related to them) were extra large size. They are Giants! Interestingly, the bible, the Tamid and the This would have allowed the site to be used to predict the beginning of the rainy season, a very important survival skill. This dual arrangement, circles of stones near a serpentine mound, appears in several places around the world where it was known to be used as a necropolis for this form of burial, Landa explained. But the size of these giants in no way compares with the Nephilim of Genesis 6 as described in non-canonical books, such as the Damascus Document The smaller man is a fighter and isnt intimidated at all by height. Again, Im not sure how he defends that. It should be pointed out, however, that this explanation is not necessarily an objective point of view whereas other explanations are based on preconceived ideas. We also know that the Philistines adopted Semitic gods worshipping Dagon as one example. So for me, the 8ft+ or 9ft theory is acceptable since we also found many 7ft+ bodies too on the neighbor islands too. All the other Philistine giants had Philistine names. One such prehistoric serpentine mound is Serpent Mound in Ohio. The lack of giant bone evidence could be the result of their being cannibals and the Israelites always being ordered to consume their remains in bonfires. I would wish for some further elaboration as to how he is so confident of this. In the pre-diluvian sixth chapter of Genesis, the Bible says that the Sons of Elohim cohabited with the daughters of men. Gen 6:4 is the only reliable reference to Nephilim and it does not provide us a physical description so that we have no reliable biblical physical description of them. We are, however, given his measurements and whether he was 4 or 6 cubits, he was still a big guy. Im just amazed at the amount of research and study youve put in to this. Hi Ajam, Different times and different cultures often result in a different way of assessing things. Its a fascinating study and one that nicely demonstrates how the bible has been changed over time. So he must have been even taller then King Saul by a great measure therefore causing great fear perhaps humiliating Sauls position as the great King of Israel. Descendants of Ham. But from above it is quite impressive, revealing itself to be five concentric rings with the outer ring measuring more than 500 feet wide. Then define ancient. The point of the article is to examine Scripture and see where the evidence leads. No less a scholar than David G. Firth argues in his Apollos Commentary on 1&2 Samuel that it can be shown that the Chronicles text form is earlier (p. 508, note on v. 19). They might give more insights into the discussed height of Goliath. For example, the royal cubit in Egypt was 20.65 inches, while in Babylonia it was 19.8 inches (Clyde E. Billington, GOLIATH AND THE EXODUS GIANTS: HOW TALL WERE THEY?, JETS, 50/3, 2007, pp. The Bible does in fact describe them as very large people, but again nothing in the range that you are proposing. My understanding of what hes saying is that even though the Lahmi brother of Goliath occurs in the Chroniclers account (which was obviously compiled later), this particular passage reflects an earlier form of the text. At its center is a mound of loose stones over 65 feet in diameter and over 16 feet tall, covering a central chamber carved into solid rock. 20:5. The name Bashan is derived from the proto-Semitic root Ugaritic term btn, meaning serpent.. I guess thats how David killed him, he just knocked his cane out from him, and he fell over, since no one over 8 feet tall today can walk without a cane! Nephilim, in the Hebrew Bible (the Christian Old Testament ), a group of mysterious beings or people of unusually large size and strength who lived both before and after the Flood. 14 Jan 2022 Michael Heiser in his book, The UnSeen Realm, points out that Ogs bed size may actually be a reference to the Babylonian god Marduk whose bed was described by these same dimensions. 17:5 He had a helmet of bronze on his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail, and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of bronze. The name Jaare-Oregim is incorrect and the Oregim has been accidentally copied from the statement of the weavers beam later in the verse. Let me make a few points: Then discounting 9+ is foolish when we have seen Robert Wadlow at 811. My desire is to examine the text and to the best of my ability to understand which reading is the most likely. Competent scholars use this kind of language frequently, recognizing the connections between Israel and these other nations. What Does The Bible Say About Burning Sage. Thanks Randy, always a delight to read your well reasoned articlesLove ya mate My point in this article is not to come up with the most logical explanation in the sense that I doubt what the Bible teaches. The Dead Sea Scrolls of this passage along with the Septuagint version (which was used by the early church as their Scripture) both read 4 cubits. Moshe Garsiel in his recent commentary on 1&2 Samuel presents an interesting argument that Elhanan is another name for David. I appreciate your interacting with me on these topics David. I have no problem with someone being 9ft if thats what the Scripture says, but the evidence seems to favor the reading of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint. A final point I would make is that there are some scholars who believe that the text of 1 Chron. The Nephilim are the offspring of The Watchers mating with the daughters of men. WebHeight Between 3.5 to 8 meters Locomotion Bipedal - Terrestrial Diet Unclear; Carnivorous practices Lifespan Over 100 years Sapience level Sapient to Semi-Sapient Behavior Extremely aggressive/hostile Language Unknown Reproduction The Elioud, offspring of the nephilim. Some quick calculations make Goliaths height, according to the MT, to be about 8 feet 9 inches (8.875), and according to 4QSam(a) and the LXX to be about 6 feet 1 inch (6.125). Of course, they might also choose to adopt a Philistine name such as Goliath.The Anakim are also said by the biblical writer to have remained in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod (Josh. Lines in South America can only be fully realized from an airplane. Im glad you enjoyed the article Ben. A six-foot tall man cant possibly appear to be tall enough to be an intimidating danger to the Israeli army. The human body has no trouble in the 7 foot height area, its only the 8 foot range where it starts struggling, because its reaching its limits. Thanks for your comments. Randy. However one man killing a thousand men is as God puts it a pure work of God. 21:19Open in Logos Bible Software (if available) has suffered in transmission. The verse from Numbers 13 mentioning giants, or in Hebrew the Nephilim were nothing more than a lie. ), then that makes it a perfectly legitimate source. According to Travis Sanders, many Nephilim look just like us, and they often dont even know what they really are. yeah I could easily say they looked like they were in the giant category. Thats whats going to happen in the future when someone digs up former NBA players in 100 years! Angels In your opinion, how many years past between the final form of the book of Samuel and the Chroniclers account of the story? On this particular passage, however, bible scholar, J. Daniel Hays argues in a very convincing way for the reading found in one of the Dead Sea Scrolls (4QSam[a]) and the Septuagint (LXX). Unfortunately, he doesnt offer any evidence. If you are asking who the tallest man in the Bible is, its difficult to say because the Bible does not tell us. You obviously think otherwise, but the grasshopper comment is indeed ancient hyperbole. When the Spirit-inspired writers of the Scriptures used hyperbole, they are emphasizing a point just as we do today. Thanks for your response. 11:22). Simply that we are often too hasty in our judgment of what is going on in the text. There are theories that claim that Og was buried at Gilgal Refaim, Landa said. The bigger a person becomes, the harder it is on their organs. Having said that, I will respond to your previous statements. First, the word Nephilites or Nephilim, which some Bible scholars translate as "giants." It is also amazing to me that the basic reading at any level of understanding leads us to Gods central message to His people, difficult differences in culture notwithstanding. we dont have to rationalize the term to fit our sensibilities. Thats why I provided the links. Similarly, Gob is most likely a scribal error for Gath because Gath was Goliaths hometown, and if the text is speaking of Goliaths brother, he would presumably be from Gath also. Bible Places Average height of Jewish men in David's time is said to be about 5 feet tall. Thanks for your extensive research and knowledge. Being he was an Egyptian you might use the Egyptian cubit of 18 to 20. It is mandatory to procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website.

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