Finally, it is really difficult to land a HTOL atmospheric craft on Duna because of the thin air: you'll be going really fast and terrain is really bumpy, so there's a huge risk of ending up as a big ball of fire, whereas it's very hard to land a conventional rocket lander precisely,like when you're aiming for your surface base. If you (or SAS) turns even just a little, the engine opposite your turn will have a higher velocity than the one towards your turn. Hovering is expensive but you don't really need all that many seconds of hover either for take-off or for landing. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. SAS sees this and turns the other way, which just causes the same problem in the other direction. and i usually find having my dampening a little lower then the spring strength keeps the wheels from "biting". Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. I'm finding it quite surprising you didn't manage to get the plane to fly yet. One point I would mention is that the more wing area you have relative to your control surfaces, the less angle of attack you can generate. Mount your rear wheels out on the wings for better stability. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. It's said that takeoffs are optional but landings are mandatory. I decided to look into that two intakes thing, and it turns out to make 11-12 m/s difference at 19,000m with my plane. @gocket the reason why your solution works is because you are counteracting the imbalance of friction in the wheels as they wobble. For more information, please see our I have not had much success usingonly horizontally oriented intakes - the engines do not have sufficient air flow to generate enough thrust to actually lift the craft. Also: high proportion of lifting surfaces to non-lifting surfaces. Your main lift, though, should always be as closely centered on your CoM as you can manage. Additionally if you have any off-center fuel tanks, double check the fuel is drawn from both at the same rate (same priority). Thrust is determined partly by velocity. How to force Unity Editor/TestRunner to run at full speed when in background? I can make a design that's quite good at hovering, landing, and maneuvering around a site like a helicopter, but it'll be crap as an actual aerodynamic plane- as the control surfaces and wing setup are designed for forward flight - and for hovering I want something that has no forward-bias (ever started sliding backwards in a vtol craft designed for otherwise normal forward flight? Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. You know you don't have enough if you're getting engine flame-outs on take-off or, worse, landing. Wings have been flown both with and without struts, Wheel friction was even decreased to 0.3 for front wheel and increased to 2.0 for rear wheels, as per a tip found online. The BAK Cyclone hard at work on Duna. 2. Plane body deformations can cause the wheels to touch the ground at a slightly different angle. If you have a perturbation that gives your left engine a tiny bit more thrust, you will turn slightly right. I have a simple Vtol SSTO that can take off with junos, hit LKO with rapiers, maybe with 100 m/s left on the rocket side, then return to spaceport and have sufficient liquid fuel for vertical landing. I have also used rocket-powered VTOLs on Duna. @italian man Great guide, and for people who would like to know the basics of plane building i will be pointing them here. Hint:The engine pre-cooler and engine nacelle are fantastic air intakes, and they can be mounted in-line or combined with other elements. Next question? Clear editor. The downside is that it isn't as pretty, but it *does* top out at mach 1.8 with a humble wheesly. air) that high up. Also there it's important to place small landing gear after setting up CoL to CoM relation since it's mass is calculated in CoM in SPH/VAB but not counted in flight. Always look at your aircraft from a 90* angle on the side. Set up your control scheme: one action group for toggling the hover jets, another action group for toggling the main jets, plus yet another one to toggle the hover jet bays, if you're using them (as you should). Lift, the canard button), and finally CoT (Center of Thrust, the thruster button) 2. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. In principle it's simple just place your fuel symmetrically around the dry CoM, and centre your vertical thrust vector on it but how? The juno 8-pack in a mk2 bay is my go-to, plus, a single Engine nacelle will provide enough air for them all and fuel is self-contained, making the design easy to scale for larger craft. Is there such a thing as "right to be heard" by the authorities? The first challenge you're likely to hit is choice of hoverjet. Please see the. They can be placed on wings. Note the landing area markers. I've spent some time scouring the internet for ways of solving this problem, and found a number of pieces of advice on preventing wobble and improving planes in general, some of which made it into the above list, but Valentina's still dying, and I'm tired of Kerbal funerals. So, if you're having this problem then. 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Love it!! RCS will get the job done nicely, and looks cool to boot. This tutorial was created primarily based on a Reddit post by the incredibly helpful u/AnArgonianSpellsword. 2 will usually do nicely, but 3 or 4 are usually better (but of course heavier, and this tutorial assumes you use 2). You want to keep the CoL slightly behind the CoM, but not too much to not create torque. For more information, please see our Roll is the main way to change direction in flight, and best way to crash the plane on the ground. That should just about do it for basic planes. Thanks to this guide I did my first ever landing on the VAB helipad! You can also use fine controls with the Caps key, or change control surface sensitivity and assigned movements. TO achieve the easisest way to balance the fuel tanks i never put usable fuel tank in where i cant move ti easily eg. May 19, 2013 in KSP1 Tutorials. (KSP 1.9.1) Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Absolute Beginner's Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKgGHrNZnz2ca8NVuyj7eHXc Craft File - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cfFBMm4EBhDh8mQ2UuOn9f5DL6jBgM05/view?usp=drivesdk0:00 - Introduction1:42 - Planning our Science Collection3:36 - Starting our Build4:49 - Changing Symmetry Mode6:40 - Adding Fuel8:07 - Adding Jet Engines \u0026 Air Intakes9:10 - Adding Wings \u0026 Elevons10:55 - Adding a Tail12:03 - Understanding Center of Lift16:24 - Understanding Control Surfaces18:31 - Adding Landing Gear22:25 - Summary To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. All three wheels (one steerable in front, two fixed in back) are mounted with angle snapping, symmetrically, Wheels are mounted to the fuselage, rather than to the wings (which flex under load), Center of lift is behind center of mass, and slightly raised, Rear wheels are in front of tail, but not enough to make tail strikes easy. Reaction wheels will balance smaller craft just fine, but are probably insufficient for bigger ones. The CoL should be in the center or just behind the CoM. if that does not work, lower the spring strength until it works properly. Is there any way to reliably fix this? I've found that all my runway wiggling planes are caused by the wheels. Now stick a jet engine on the back, and don't forget to put an air intake or other air-sucking device (you can find them in aerodynamics) on the airplane. There are lots of ways to make this work, but here are some designs I've used successfully: For rocket-powered hover, use Spark,Aerospike, or Vector (if you really need a lotof hover power). 5. So you want to make a plane but all your contraptions explode on the runway, crash into the runway a few seconds after taking off, crash into the side of the runway, crash into the ocean after doing a tight turn or otherwise fail to do what you intended? It's unlikely you're doing this but just in case: while on the ground use only yaw controls to change direction, don't touch the roll controls. More air is better. Any plane needs speed - so you need thrust (usually). the front should be close to double the rear gears strength) And Good Guide! Would I be better unlocking more parts and leaving this contract for later? The CoT (Center of Thrust) is purple. That is something I am really looking forward to. An aircraft without control surfaces is like a rocket without RCS or reaction wheels - it will hardly turn and will be equally hard to control (perhaps even impossible!). Larger ones have additional wing-mounted pods. You do need rather a lot of them. Ill link it if interested. If it doesn't, he can just make the stabilizer bigger; instead of turning down control authority, just add more fixed wing. First off, make sure you are using the newest version of Kerbal Space Program, and it is NOT pirated, when you buy it, the devs get helped out. These tend to handle . Finally you need to make sure it's all balanced, this means the centre of lift marker needs to be very slightly behind the centre of mass marker. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. I've always found that best way to not crash on the take off is to take off. Hit the launch button and watch your magnificent bird fly! If you have a delta wing with a slight AoA and pitch-control elevons at the back, I also find it works well to rotate the elevons back to the pure horizontal. In fact, nothing will happen at all, and that's probably bad, so put an air intake on your plane anyway. And start small. She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. You should talk about the rocket engine's dV (approx., since not all users use Mechjeb or any other mod capable of showing dV for a given engine and tank). For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. Then I'd go with moving it towards more maneuvrable by moving CoL towards CoM. Sorry if this is just too basic, it is kind of for beginners, edit: [snipped the stupid thought] i need to stop trying to post when dead tired, I like rules of thumb like these All the info you need without getting bogged down with specifics, Just a quick FYI, you say that CoL is center of thrust and CoT is center of lift; these are the wrong way around. You've landed. and our Touch down, CUT throttle, CUT engines, BRAKES ON. Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. My first VTOL craft was the Bumblebee, and it's still one of my favourites! CoL (Blue ball) position relative to CoM (Yellow ball) is very important. 1. hope you and others find that useful in the future! Kerbin has some biomes that are difficult to reach any other way. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. On the other hand, atmospheric craft are superb for exploring it for the very same reason you can scout for the perfect spot for your base, then land precisely there. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Please help, This is an okay guide but it does not go into the nuts and bolts of the deal.like what exactly do all of these wing parts do? Pasted as rich text. KSP should be handing out engineering degrees :). We're also not discussing helicopters here, because stock kerbals have not invented the propeller, and stock propellers are a whole big topic of their own. Check out Mike from Merrimack, New Hampshire as he explains to filmmaker Rod Webber what' There's no tutorial in KSP that explains plane design to you and this guide could have taken the lead on that. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. [Stock] Brikoleur's Guide to VTOL Aircraft, fuel and trying to add more fuel means you need. And one other, more remote possibility to check: Where is your plane's center of drag? Your CoT vector will disappear. You can post now and register later. Then at the top, we'll put one tail fin, centred on the end of the fuselage. The BAK Karmilla. However, don't put any fuel tanks on it yet, and empty any fuel-containing parts that you are using. Build yourself a plane. Really nice overview and some incredible looking craft! Privacy Policy. How do I make aircraft stable & smooth to control? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. They have in common that it's easy to tweak the balance by moving things around, rather than having to add or remove pieces. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. Why did DOS-based Windows require HIMEM.SYS to boot? Terriers will also work on Duna. Have fun with your S/VTOL craft and don't forget there are more ways to do them as well, including helicopter-like things that don't fly aerodynamically at all. Keeping it from crashing is usually the hard part. If it starts tipping in one direction, you're really likely to flip over and crash dramatically, like a tree falling over. Building planes is one of the more fun things to do in Kerbal Space Program, and also leads to more science on kerbin and eventually SSTO spaceplanes. On the other hand, something with a wide wingspan but narrow wings (like the connector Cs) will pitch easily but need more oomph to roll. @TheEnvironmentalist No clue, but it doesn't need to be much because it's a feedback loop. @gokcet @DANKTER I usually run my front wheel override friction on 0.3 when the front gear has steering disabled, it needs lower friction. Do you by chance know how much the thrust varies with these small velocity perturbations? Getting a plane of the round isn't that hard. Before building planes though, there are some inportant things to know. Also stock fuel priority is in 1.2, allowing very stable CoM builds. Because they're fun and educational and you can. Somebody figured out how to make a stable orbit inside of the atmosphere Scan this QR code to download the app now. I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different. Congratulations! As such, you will need various control surfaces. The BAK Zephyr, a rocket-powered VTOL craft designed for conducting science missions on Duna. You need about 150 m/s for the landing, less than that for take-off. Valve Corporation. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com. Some general pointers to make more stable aircraft, one is to set your COL just behind your COM, another is that your centre of drag should be as far back as possible - there's no way to visually show this as far as I know but a light but aerodynamically bulky rear to an aircraft generally makes it more stable. This can be most helpful when transitioning to or from level flight. I'd start with a lawn arrow that can be hardly pulled up, horrible to maneuver, with CoL way behind, but rock-stable. The solution is to house the hoverjets in a cargo bay of some kind, with the doors opening downwards. Unexpected uint64 behaviour 0xFFFF'FFFF'FFFF'FFFF - 1 = 0? They optimize use of oxidizer in SSTOs. - SF. ps. This would certainly have to be revised once Breaking Ground drops, those parts are extremely relevant for VTOL. When your airspeed is near zero and you're above your landing spot, reduce throttle until you start descending. Plane veering off course is not uncommon but uneven fuel draw can exacerbate it a lot. When your airspeed is low enough that aerodynamic control is getting sluggish. Here's how you go about building a VTOL under these constraints. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Kerbal Space Program, how do you disable autosave? If it is, you'll never get the nose off the runway. one last thing to verify: look from the side, observe where your center of mass is, then how the control surfaces are located relative to it and if the way they react to your controls makes sense (just try to pull up, down, or roll, on the runway without even starting the engine or disengaging brakes and watch which way the control surfaces move). You cannot paste images directly. (as in, like 45 degrees) usually resulting in the plane exploding. For your first flight, it may be easiest to ignore yaw altogether and just maneuver by rolling slightly and pitching. Next you need landing gear. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The more intakes added, the higher a plane can go before a flame-out, which makes multiple intakes a must on SSTO spaceplanes. The same applies to Laythe, although it has gentler topography. I think it might be so small it starts with floating-point rounding errors; it's exponential and compounds every frame. For your first flight, it may be easiest to ignore yaw altogether and just maneuver by rolling slightly and pitching. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. To start off with, use ANY cockpit you want, this tutorial is going to teach you how to make anything using anything, as long as you follow these directions. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Your_First_Plane&oldid=103052. A basic tutorial on building a single prop plane. Wheels need to be touching the ground exactly as they were intended to, you cannot angle them in any direction other then their intended direction when placing them. In other words classic tripod. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Hopefully this gets you your first aircraft that can take off and land, which is the biggest hurdle to being able to make KSP aircraft. LTTP again (KSP on hiatus for a bit), but here's an answer anyway. Ok, you will want to start building. This happens in two instances; initial placement and plane body deformation. Hi all so I accepted a contract to do temp scans on Kerbin and guessed a plane was the right way to do it so I made this. Which was the first Sci-Fi story to predict obnoxious "robo calls"? For the vertical engines, do you also need to have some verticalintakes? 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. As with everything in KSP, experiment, experiment, experiment. But be careful and don't crash it! And start small. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. On 11/1/2018 at 10:54 AM, Brikoleur said: On 1/25/2019 at 4:03 AM, panzerknack said: This thread is quite old. Any plane needs speed - so you need thrust (usually). The parts regarding landing gear placement is especially relevant in 1.1.x. I've found a few body plans to be especially amenable to conversion to VTOL. Control surfaces are your friend. Thanks for any answers! Things get ugly!!). If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Nah, the stabilizer will do it. Body deformation can be caused by heavy parts, many parts connected together, or forces on the plane. a craft that's designed to fly aerodynamically, using lift produced by lifting surfaces. You might still be able to turn very quickly, but if you don't have enough wing you won't drag your velocity vector with you, which means you force your wings into a stall and bleed energy in a hurry (and can also lose control, depending). Move them back and fill them with fuel or weigh them down with control surfaces. Once you got a hang of these, try bigger stuff. Enable mirror symmetry to save yourself some alignment effort. Always look at your aircraft from a 90* angle on the side. on the same axis as engines. Now right click each elevon and the tail fin and set what movement each controls; the ones on the large wings control roll only, the ones on the back wings control pitch only, and the tail fin controls yaw only. You can "smooth" controls by toggling capslock on your keyboard, the control indicators in the bottom left will turn blue from orange and they are instance dependant (if you revert your flight you'll have to toggle capslock again). Have you set your control surfaces to only respond to appropriate controls? Use Pilot Assistant - it's SAS is meant for aircraft rather than general ( read: rocket ) use. Upload or insert images from URL. Turns out it was wheel positioning! Go on, and take the plane capsule which looks like a converted fuel storage device. The CoM (Center of Mass) is a yellow ball on your spacecraft when you enable it in the SPH. Flight records. In 5e D&D and Grim Hollow, how does the Specter transformation affect a human PC in regards to the 'undead' characteristics and spells? Sparks will fit in Mk 1 utility bays, the bigger ones will fit in the bigger cargo bays (Mk 2, 2.5m utility bay, Mk 3). Standard KSP airplane-stability request: post a screenshot of your airplane in the SPH, with the center-of-mass, center-of-lift, and center-of thrust markers shown. Have you noticed this or do you think I might just need more vertical engines when using horizontal intakes only? This plane will be able to take off, travel somewhere, perform a crew report, and then land. I haven't found a sure-fire solution to this, but I think I know what causes it. Take the large delta wings and place them on the aircraft. Your plane will be slow and have limited range, or you'll have to make it a lot bigger to brute-force your way around that limitation. People put waaaaaaaaay too many control surfaces on things from a lot of the screenshots I see. Which reverse polarity protection is better and why? To land a VTOL aircraft, approach the landing zone as you would with a regular HTOL craft, until on final approach. I was a diehard rocketer (5k hours or so) until a month ago and then suddenly got the spaceplane bug, I can now see why some people (*cough*Val*cough*) come out with dozens of designs: it's neat when it works so well. Wings on the front of the craft can cause pitching and rolling, causing you to hold W constantly. The BAK Drakula. Firstly you're going to want to make a short fuselage. But it flies horribly, it's all over the place even with SAS on it doesn't fly even remotely stable. A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program. Cookie Notice While I couldn't accept this one because ultimately it was changing wheel positioning that increased stability enough to elegantly take off, I don't think it's unreasonable to imagine that the oscillations originated or were exacerbated through asymmetric thrust. Of course the cargo capacity is less than with a HTOL since you're using some of it to haul those vertical thrusters. The writing is a bit disjointed, because it's been edited and restructured a few times andI'm not a native english speaker. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. This should reduce ground control authority and make oscillations less powerful. Intakes aren't something usually causing planes to fail, however need some thought. Valentina would really appreciate if I could get my airplane off the ground, but it keeps exploding on the runway by the exact same failure mode: The plane veers to one side or another, either I or SAS correct it, which starts a left/right wobble, which builds until one of the wings hits pavement, at which point the craft quickly brings Valentina to her untimely end. I really hope that this will help you, if you would like more tutorials, click these links: Hello, today I will be showing you how to make an absolutely perfect space plane! By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. As you reach 100m/s, hold S to pull the stick back, and you should be in the air! In addition to the tips others have suggested, try locking steering on all your wheels. Adding a vertical intake helps. Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. the vertical stabilizer only handles yaw? Clear editor. Does the order of validations and MAC with clear text matter? Try reducing control authority (or even generally amount) of control surfaces - rudder, ailerons, the front wheel (maybe even make it a fixed one). Also hopefully you're not using any mods that use throttle (Throttle Controlled Avionics etc) as with engines as sluggish to react as jet, this is bound to cause trouble. If you have more than one engine, you can get asymmetric thrust at low speeds. User without create permission can create a custom object from Managed package using Custom Rest API. Now, get a pair of winglets, and place them at the front of the plane to get that approximate spacing of COM . Your plane is almost finished. I don't have that other stuff yet. Otherwise tune the suspension to keep takeoff and landing stable.

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